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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  October 7, 2009 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT

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defined. the objectives are not clear. americans are split on the goal. we are join bid two members of the congress with very different time for "the side show." ideas about where we go from here in a war that has lasted everyone is a critic these days. longer than any other except steven colbert took aim on the vietnam and the american president on his slow decision making on afghanistan. revolution. plus, few people know more about the horrors of war than former >> we should take the fight to georgia senator maximum cleland who lost three limbs in vietnam. al qaeda in afghanistan. that's why as president i will he says we shouldn't be nation make the fight against al qaeda building in afghanistan. and the taliban the top priority we should be targeting al qaeda that it should be. wherever it is. wait until you hear what he has >> and obama made it a top pry to say about karl rove who or. right after banks, cars, the portrayed him as unpatriotic. what a way to make of these two stimulus, health care, dogs and polls out today. herb gardens, olympics, and associated press poll has beer. president obama's approval rating up six points since september. up to 56. now we can go back to our old but a new gallup poll shows the girl, afghanistan. republicans now with a very guess what we forget? clear chance to gain control of she's [ bleep ] crazy. the speakership next year. we will survey the political landscape against the early odds that's why we left. of where the republicans can win back the house. she's moodier than a drunk late today, the democrats got hyena. good news on health care. she's always broke and has a serious heroin problem. the congressional budget office said in effect the senate's
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finance committee bill is fully >> all good comedy found on that paid for. we will break that down in the certain hard truth. speaking of the white house "politics fix." released a list of 45 paintings that are now on loan at the steve colbert has a funny take on the serious question of white house. one in particular seems to president obama handling encapsulate what it means to be the top decision maker these afghanistan. let's start with the war in afghanistan. eight years on. days. it is called "i think i'll --" let's take a look at what walter cronkite said about the vietnam war in 1968. let's listen. we have it there. >> it seems now more certain the old jack benny joke. than ever that the bloody experience of vietnam is to end i'm thinking, says the miser. in a stalemate. remember this zinger from alan grayson last week. >> congressman kucinich thinks >> if you get sick, america, the we should get out of afghanistan now. and republican congressman th n republican health care plan is this. die quickly. thornbury of texas says we need that's right. the republicans want you to die to send in more troops. quickly if you get sick. congressman kucinich, you first. are we losing the war in >> of course, gray sob rebuffed afghanistan? >> we should never have been the republican calls for him to there. we have to get -- win or lose. apologize. and now he's pushing back even harder with a new fund-raising we can't win in a situation where there is a weak central e-mail. it features a spoof of this poster for the just-out movie government and widespread pride.
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the invention of lying. occupation is to fuel congressman grayson's version. insurgency, whether it is drugs involved. this is a nightmare and we need a town where everyone can tell to get the troops out of there lies, he is the only one telling and as fast as we can. the truth. >> i want an answer. i think this man is riding his are we losing the mission? own wave. he's doing well. now for tonight's big number. it had been a lot of comparisons between vietnam and afghanistan >> well, again, i don't think we should have ever goned in or in recent months. stayed in there goyn with. here is another one. today marks eight years of war i don't even -- my level in afghanistan. how long did americans' analysis -- it goes beyond winning and losing. involvement in the vietnam war we win by leaving. >> okay. that's an interesting point of last? view. i'm trying to figure out whether it was eight years and six we are being the taliban or month. can't beat them. august '64 to january of '73 they are going to be there when we go. are we losing the war against which makes afghanistan now just the taliban in afghanistan? happier shy of viet nam. longest war lasted eight years >> well, i trust general and six months. tonight's disturbing big mcchrystal's assessment things numbers. up next, yesterday we saw are going badly. that does not mean we are losing president obama's judgment in the polls up to 56 points. to the taliban but it means we -- things are going in the today the republicans are wrong direction which means that gaining ground on the congressional front. the taliban is gaining and as what it means for the midterms and whether the democrats can they gain, al qaeda has more really hold on to power. room to maneuver and to plan and that's coming up next. plot against us.
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you are watching "hardball" only on msnbc. meday, cars will be engineered >> congressman kucinich, if you get your way, if we pull out of using nanotechnology to convert plants into components. afghanistan quickly, what will be the consequences of that decision. the first-ever hs hybrid. >> i think immediately we don't only from lexus. just pull out without consulting with nations in the region. and we have to make sure that we -- that we have an ongoing if we never had to get well soon, observation of what is going on in that region. would we simply stay well always? i think the immediate consequence is that the united there's a place to find out. states will be spared the loss at walgreens, we're redefining what it means to be well... of more troops, we won't see the u.s. in a position where during with products and advice you can count on every day. our occupation the production of in every area of your life. opium goes up in the country. so join us, and stay well soon. i think that we will start to be in a position of stabilizing our walgreens. there's a way to stay well. situation in other parts of the world. i think we will be in a stronger position to play a hand with iran. i don't think that we are -- i think we are destabilizing our power by being in afghanistan and i think we should get out there and we should get out of iraq as well. >> do you believe if we pull out of afghanistan, the taliban will defeat the central government of
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karzai? >> i think that the central government of karzai right now is so corrupt and so weak that if we stay in there, we can't prop it up. despised by the people of afghanistan. whoever takes over, you know, they are going to have a difficult time being able to control afghanistan until, number one, get it control of the drug situation which is really the warlords and drug lords have taken over much of afghanistan. so whoever takes over sent t central government, they will have a tough time holding on. >> looking at controlled chaos for white a kwu years. >> congressman thornberry, what if we give general mcchrystal the 40,000 more troops he wants? what will be the result of that decision? >> well, remember, he's not just asking for more troops. he wants to implement a new someday, the driver will get to choose strategy. and what that strategy seeks to how efficient or powerful their car will be. achieve is to help the afghans the first ever hs hybrid. stand up their own police and only from lexus. their own military so that they can take care of their own
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security. so ideally, given the time and training and so forth, afghans can secure their territory and prevent it from becoming another base to be used against terrorist -- as terrorist attacks against us and pakistan can also prevent its territory from being used as a base against us and the government of pakistan can be stabilized as well. remember, it is not just what happens within the borders of afghanistan that's important. it is neighboring pakistan with nuclear weapons that we have to keep our eye on. >> do you believe that president karzai's party won that last election? do you believe that was a clean election? do you believe we are defending a legitimate government? you first, mr. thornberry. >> it is obviously not a clean election. exactly who won, i don't know. we will be watching for the studies and the investigations on that. but remember, we are not there to defend the karzai government.
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we are there to prevent a sanction wary from being used to attack us here at home. and we are there to prevent the government of pakistan from being destabilized. and i would say that -- as a benefit, a side benefit in a way, we are there to prevent return of the taliban rule and stocks falling today. nobody should underestimate the investors taking a wait and see humanitarian disaster that those approach ahead of alcoa's earnings. dow jones industrials looming stadium executions and the other five points. things that went on during the taliban rule brought on the people of afghanistan. s&p 500 up. >> i'm just trying to figure nasdaq just over six. out, gentlemen, what exactly alcoa kicked off with a bang. will happen if your policy aluminum giant surprised wall prescriptions are carried street posting better than expected third quarter profits. first profit in a year. through. congressman thornberry, you seem very unclear what we are revenues stronger than expected, protecting in afghanistan -- are too. tech pushed higher after an we protecting the government analyst upgrade on cisco. there? how do we -- who are we -- who experts say the company is are we for in afghanistan? poised to benefit from pent-up who are we for? >> we are for us. demand in the networking area. and we are for -- unleashed by an economic >> we are for us in afghanistan? recovery. and the congressional budget >> yes, sir. office finished the analysis of
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the senate finance committee's we are stabilizing the health care reform proposal. government in afghanistan so it estimates the plan will cost that the -- >> government of karzai? about $829 billion over ten >> the -- the afghanistan and years. cutting the deficit by $81 neighboring pakistan cannot be billion in the process. used as a sanctuary to attack that's it from cnbc. us. >> okay. >> this is what it is about. first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." they are imperfect but remember, their military and their police force is building up and rather than focus on the head in kabul we need to look at their whole welcome back to "hardball." national capabilities and just over a year from the 2010 whether they can effectively congressional elections on the prevent al qaeda from using it majority democrats on course to stay or is the majority in as base against us. >> let me get back to trouble? how can president obama help the congressman kucinich because you seem hesitant. pear hold power? i think i know your philosophy the here. nbc political analyst charlie i don't get your particular cook. belief. publisher and editor of "the do you believe that general cook political report." mcchrystal is correct in saying our mission is a failure. look at this new number here. we are losing the ground war this is the associated press against the taliban. poll. it shows that the president's >> what he said is predicated approval rating jumped up to 56% and i didn't want him to send more troops. i disagree with that, chris. and from 50% over a month. i think that, you know, his
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far more fascinating to me, whole view is you look at guys,s is the fact that the improving the counterinsurgency, negative -- disapproval which wrong strategy for afghanistan. was so high after all the crazy stuff of the summer, tea counterinsurgencies are good for more stable situations than have parties, nut bags out there, up you in afghanistan. the idea we are going to put to 49% dropped ten points in a an -- democracy in afghanistan month. that to me is dramatic. when you consider all the corruption that they had, ballot ten-point drop in the stuffing and spreading, president's disapproval. your sometime of what's going intimidation, it is like63 a on? >> i think that is an you liar rock or have a rose grow out of poll that does not look like the sheer granite. other data we are seeing. it is not going tohappsoil. the gallup poll is out every day >> withthornberry, y want at 1:00. of last night, 51% approval usoat gal rating. last week was 52%. week before that was 51%. you believe will be ab to av gh week before that was 52%. that's thrust of what we are we will haver ad00 seeing. >> how about the negatives? how about negatives? gt.lde sta ep,vee how about the disapproval iean ifgha des all the number? what's that doing on your polling? >> approval -- disapproval is naysayers and despite all the 41%. holding very steady. u very much, so -- i'm not seeing that kind of movement. congren. thanyou inyou, c thornberry. there was a little bit of an
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uptick after senator kennedy's funeral. around the time of senator kennedy's funeral. there is nothing in the news i guess we are not going to get far this argument. it sounds like they made up this would -- offer a suggest why there would be an uptick now. their mind about these things . i think the president had a tough couple of weeks. 30, 40 years ago. >> john harris, your assessment what does street president need of the numbers coming up from to know that he doesn't know now the associated press showing before he decides on whether to ten-point drop in disapproval give general mcchrystal his and hike in six points in requested 40,000 more troops? approval. >> well, white house officials >> i think you can see consumer are saying to me that, in fact, go back to the bruce reidel report which led to the numbers picking up. maybe we avoided the worst and decisions of last march. we have been all saying the the nick recovery might be on conventional wisdom in the way. i suspect that's -- other polls washington has been that march is now mute and that the initial start to show this i think that's probably going to be one afghan strategy is being of the factors. i do think there is an emerging supplemented because of the sense he will get something on changes, decisions on the ground, perhaps the political health care. and success is roaring with reality. in fact, you go back to the success in the polls. original questions that bruce >> let's take a look at the gallup poll and other number i reidel and former cia and nfc find fascinating. it shows after having a big lead of double digits in what's oceansed, it was how do we come called the generic which doesn't make it too complicated, simple up with the strategy that will
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disrupt and -- end al qaeda's basis question, are you going influence and protect the united vote for democrat or republican next time, democrats or republicans to run the congress states? what we want to do is get into of the united states, there it afghanistan and disrupt al qaeda. the questions the president is is. it is almost -- 46% 4shgs 4%, asking to get to your point are even basically. how will these various it has been as recently as july. recommendations lead to our goal? that goal remains to disrupt al charlie cook, your thoughts, is there movement there? >> i think there is, chris. qaeda, to protect the security of the united states, and to if you look at the context of enhance regional security as when these democratic majorities well. are created in 2006, 2008, you those are the questions he is ask asking. right now what he is getting are are looking at 10, 12, 15, answers. we don't know whether he is accepting the answers but sometimes higher democratic getting intelligence briefing on advantages in the generic ballot how it relates to pakistan today test. and now you are looking at, you know, 2%, 3%. followed by a regional diplomatic briefing from the the way i would look at it is secretary of state and her that this democratic majority was like a greenhouse where you advisers and obviously richard holbrooke and others would be part of that. are growing orchids and top cam and then robert gates would give plants. it was absolutely perfect the military perspective on growing conditions for democrats what's changed today and that and every conceivable way. the pentagon announced -- mohr with the greenhouse isn't here el announced from the pentagon and isn't there now. and what we are seeing is they have given the president -- officially given him the troops. increasingly hostile environment. the polling i'm seeing shows >> my concern is as an american there was a heart research poll watching this, learning of economic policy institute
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that came out a few -- last americans are building outposts of demand by 140 people, begins week. 85% of american people think we to look like one of the old are still in a recession. you can line up ph.d.s all week french foreign legion movies ware we are putting troops, western troops, our guys and women out in the middle east long that say it is over. outpost and guarded land to until the american people say it is over, it is not over. basically control the land of >> that helps the republicans? afghanistan. >> absolutely. that's the job of afghans. >> even though -- democrat have >> that is not -- that cannot only been in for nine months now? >> everybody knows that this continue. as we know that -- unit was recession started -- polls show planning to withdraw and people know this recession started under president bush. relocate. i asked that very question of every single day president obama our military analyst. gets a little bit more vested in when you look at the picture of the economy. and i would argue that the focus that ravine, what the heck were on health care -- ought to go american troops doing in that back to the sign in the war room location? it seemed absurd on the face. in 1992. it is the economy, stupid. he said i don't want to second-guess an experienced and what -- what bill clinton commander in the field but you says as a candidate, like a are absolutely correct. what he was told was they were laser beam. protecting supply lines which every day, every minute, focused makes sense. >> begin to look -- on health care, a day they are >> cannot imagine -- not focused on creating jobs. >> andrea, looks like the old >> i think you are dead right. game of strategic hamlets by street way, i agree with that. the great question in poll developing control over land mass. trying to rule afghanistan and particular, you care about people like me.
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because their government is and if the president is focus failure. we are trying to supplement and order his goal of health care and not the thing people worried replace a failed government. we are trying to be the about now, you wonder if he government in effect of cares about people like and you me. that's the fundamental afghanistan. i wonder if that is a smart disconnect here. john harris? strategy and whether it will >> again, we are -- when we get ever allow us to leave. to 2010, we are looking at >> and i think that that is exactly what the president is wrestling with. individual districts where no easy answers here. democrats are likely to -- the other word out of the white historical trends say they will house officials is that don't assume that all the reporting is correct. that what joe biden is talking lose. republican leaning districts. when you see the moderate voters about is tantamount to withdrawing and doing it -- that's not what he is talking about. he is still talking about a and conservative leaning voters, if they are concerned about the robust force of boots on the ground. i think you will see some economy and spending in building up of war loads and washington that's a difficult they will trial to work around environment. we are seeing that in virginia. the central government and while >> here is the tough call. they are trying to enhance it let's go to virginia. and a lot of training. we have the picture of virginia and the trend line. >> i don't think that -- my sources tell me that's not biden's view. his view is much more middle of republican chris christie the road here than that. falling down in new jersey. peaked a bit too early. sefrtdly. andrea mitchell, thank you very much. couple of weeks ago. corzine is come back. what president obama needs to do in afghanistan. that will be very close. we will talk to a veteran of the in virginia, have you another united states senate and war in close one. looks like mcdonald has the
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vietnam. a man that lost three limbs in advantage. charlie cook, i think the republicans are headed towards vietnam, mast cleland. victory in virginia. he knows something about the what do you think? wars of attrition. >> there was a window right after the democratic primary. you are watching "hardball" only on msnbc. democrat was ahead and then a complete multivitamin for women. suddenly it was like the whole it has vitamin d which emerging science suggests... weight of some of the problem the president's problems and supports breast health... party problems start coming down and more calcium for bone health. it and you started seeing new centrum ultra women's. independents moving away from them in droves. and the -- the republican lead, mcdonald's lead got real, real home run! big. they whacked him back and were able to crawl back into the race for a while with this thesis (announcer) he's sweet. thing. even with one third less sugar than soda. but it is -- it is a tough road. kool-aid. delivering more smiles per gallon. independents are getting to be very difficult. keep in mind that this is a group voted democratic for congress by an 18 point margin in 2006. and the president's job rating is now dropping from the 60s to the mid 40s among independent. independents are the challenge for the democrats. >> deed against mcdonald last night.
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>> a lot of what's going on in washington made it very tough. very tough office. people are uncomfortable with the spending, uncomfortable with a lot of noise coming out of washington, d.c. we are reframing the debate on virginia and i'm confident that could it really happen? if we can successfully do that, could the republicans win ba i think we can, we are going to win the election. backship and house of representatives? the poll numbers say they are >> talking to you last night. within range to do it. they are right on the edge of doing it. here is the question. because with national, i roll past the counter... can he lay off the blame on the president? that's what he seems to be and choose any car in the aisle. doing. >> definitely the subtext on both sides. choosing your own car? deeds people ask deeds himself now that's a good call. as saw in the clip saying what a go national. go like a pro. tough year, national climate bad for us. in part because of decisions now that's a good call. get wrapped up in the luscious taste that washington democrats made. of butternut squash, lot of national operatives are blended with delicate herbs. v8 golden butternut squash. saying look, what we have is a from campbell's. disparity between deeds and a soup so velvety and delicious mcdonald and should be looked to you won't be able to contain yourself. his own campaign, own candidates campbell's v8 soups. field before blaming obama and democratic congress. not good when you get a blame as the decades have past, the promise of medicare has always been there. going on before the election. >> looked to me we have a dazey and aarp has fought to guarantee chain here.
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none of the benefits you earned were ever taken away. economy. feeling of a recession, today we're continuing that fight unemployment. by protecting your freedom underemployment and people that to choose the doctors and treatments you need. don't bother looking for jobs because they have given up. and to have your tax dollars go towards your care-- they blame the president for that. not insurance company subsidies. now they blame the president for you've done your work. and we'll keep doing ours. the political situations in virginia. it is all going back to the learn more at economy. charlie cook, i appreciate your views. i do like this associated press poll. john harris, thank you for joining us. up next, who should we be fighting in afghanistan, al qaeda or taliban or both? eight years after we got in there there, are we just punishing the taliban? are we ever going to catch bin laden? we have the results of the phillies/rockies game in philly. it just happened. we will give thaw when we come back. president obama's tricky decisions coming up. this is "hardball." this hair color is a washout. try nice'n easy with color-blend technology. in 1 step, get a blend of 3 tones. highlights, lowlights, and shine. it makes a fresh, light-filled frame for your pretty face.
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nice'n easy. your right color. (announcer) regular kool-aid. goes almost three times further than soda. kool aid. delivering more smiles per gallon. the u.s. military begins year nine in afghanistan. year nine now. number of war dead in operations even when he thought he might lose his job. enduring freedom, that's what it was called, still is, has he says he doesn't think about it much... increased sharply. but i don't believe him. already in 2009, there have been 239 military deaths on our side. i think he does it for us. far more than in prior years. sometimes doing the right thing is just making people happy. as president obama weigh it is afghanistan strategy, what lit mean for u.s. troops. max klee land lost both arms in vietnam and his new book, "heart of a patriot, how i found the
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it will cost no increase in the deficit. courage to survive vietnam and what will that do to win over karl rove." skeptics? "hardball" returns with "the politics fix" next. it is a stirringing of what you v8 garden broccoli. went through which is probably almost impossible for to you put from campbell's. into words. velvety, delicious. what it was like for that campbell's v8 soups. grenade went off. and waking up and living through also, try new garden vegetable blend. the torture of the alcohol and your limbs. let me ask you about -- let's 100 years of engineering excellence is right on time. start with what we were just it's gmc truck month. talking about with andrea mitch shop sierra 1500 slt with the 403 horsepower 6.2 liter v8. wholly respect a lot. andrea says the president is trying to decide whether we can achieve that particular goal we it's the most powerful half ton v8 in its class. went in afghanistan to achieve. step up to the best. it's gmc truck month. can bin laden destroy the taliban -- destroy al qaeda, get 0% apr for 60 months on 2009 gmc sierra terrorist group, attacked us on or get $6,000 total cash back on 9/11 with whatever strategy we select 09 sierra 1500 extended and crew cabs in stock. follow? what do you think when you look at this current situation? >> what i think -- it is a see your gmc dealer today. couple of things i learned in vietnam. first, monuments to the stupidity of man. so if we try to fix one country with counterinsurgency and
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nation building, all the taliban actually -- all the al qaeda will do is move to another sanctuary. the point is that it is all about al qaeda. it is not about afghanistan. it is not about boots on the ground. it is not about the taliban. they did not attack us. al qaeda did. we have to go after al qaeda and kill or capture sxwinl go after al qaeda sent which is in northwestern pakistan and protect pakistan's nuclear weapons program. the taliban leadership actually happens to be in pakistan, not so much in afghanistan. so the real question is what's the mission? the mission is clearly and simply straightforwardly go after al qaeda wherever it is located. right now, it is located in pakistan. so all the questions are about afghanistan. wrong questions. >> you know, it is funny. there's nothing funny about this because you have been in combat and suffered tremendously and right now, i keep trying to tell myself stop thinking about this.
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just a conversation. there are men and women on posts right now in scary situations who have inform get through the night tonight and who are stuck out there in the outposts. let me ask you an ironic question. wouldn't we be better off if al qaeda did go back and into afghanistan? we can peck them off at will. they are hiding in pakistan. everybody says the worst thing that could happen is -- al qaeda would go back in afghanistan. great. blow the hell out of them and nobody will stop us. taliban will not be able to stop us. we can't bomb with impunity in pakistan. we have a friendly government will. if we have a hostile government back for "the politics fix." in afghanistan, we can knock joe walsh. them off at our choosing, can't we? >> the issue, if you -- if you go back to the first celebrating right now, as i am, congressional resolution which let's put the hats on. was passed right after 9/11, it phillies, 5-1. says we will go after those who won the first game of the playoffs. long way to go. attacked us and anybody ten more games to win to win the harboring them. whole thing. it is done. let's move on. if you are harboring al qaeda you better watch out. >> congratulation. >> i want to ask you, we all we are coming after and you you may get hurt. vaguely agree, there is some whether it is the taliban or
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yemen or somalia or indonesia or disconnect here among us, if the any other place in the world. president gets 40,000 more troops or substantial number mo now, we -- our issue is with al maybe 10,000 or whatever he qaeda. we have to take -- focus on agrees to, will we be fighting in afghanistan with a large that. war in iran, distracted the american people and compromised number of troops four, eight the american army. years from now? your answer, joan? now we are a spent bullet in terms of the political will. >> i think we will, chris. now we are pretty much a spent i don't think it's enough troops to completely fake ov lly take bullet in -- militarily. we don't have in my opinion the country. i'm not sure we have enough option and shun have troops. the irony here is we're not particularly the option of going clear about whether we're fighting al qaeda or the after a counterinsurgency of nation building in five to ten taliban. i heard richard engel say years. we are going to al qaeda something fascinating today. wherever it is. it is in pakistan. he was asked to compare what you don't necessarily have to go obama might do with the surge, after them with a hell of a lot of boots on the ground. that's not the biggish on. which at least marshapartially the big issue is weighs the objective. in baghdad, in iraq. he answered if we were going to what's the military objective? use the principles of the surge it is al qaeda. killing or capturing them before we would have to make peace with they kill us. taliban. that's what we did in iraq. >> i think people think the more input you put the more suffering made piece with tribal leaders you endure and more troops you have, more successful you are. i wonder whether the more brains or war lords. we would have to pacify the you have the better you will do. whole country.
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in your book, you wrote, quote, we don't have enough troops to when i lost my re-election bid do that. i think this is a losing motion. to the united states senate back i don't think we can pull out in 2002, my life fell apart. precipitously. the start of the war in iraq, my i don't want to see another 40,000 troops in there. own post traumatic stress >> michael, your thoughts. disorder came roaring back 40 if the president agrees to this years after i was in combat. troop increase i wonder if we'll you know, i remember that get out of afghanistan, whether campaign. we're not just in there for the i remember the sleazy campaign long term, forever. ran by your opponent back in 2002 where he tied new with the >> there are some false sense of enemies of our country because bravado that's creeping up in you voted for a couple of amendments that -- labor unions this argument which says if you're against the mcchrystal wanted to allow people at the -- plan of allocating 40,000 or so homeland security department to be unionized and turned that troops to afghanistan that it's a sign of weakness and you're against the troops who have into an anti-american act already served. i don't see it that way. because he didn't like union. i don't know what the objective >> no, it wasn't that at all. is right now. i can tell you what the it was the fact that the white objective should be. house opposed the department of it should be to go over there and kill those who were homeland security and me and senator lieberman actually on responsible for the events of the governmental affairs september 11th. committee were for the >> they're in pakistan. department homeland security. the white house did not want >> we exhausted that ability. they are in pakistan, chris. lieberman to get a leg up you know i'm a broken record on because he has been vice this. there's a better argument to be president al candidate and shifted their view. they accused me of somehow made for our intervention in compromising the effort for pakistan than there is in homeland security. afghanistan. if we completely rid afghanistan that was bull fetszers and of the al qaeda and their
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linked me in with bin laden and taliban supporters, but the saddam hussein. tribal regions, the fatah region that was rls bull feathers but of pakistan is a no-man's land, part of the karl rove strategy that -- you go after the -- you then where are we? try to drive up the opposition's we are nowhere. >> let any go to the -- joan, negatives and even if it is to take away military service. the worst-case scenario of those they tried that against me and who say we pull out of they were successful. afghanistan is that al qaeda will come back in, maybe bin they still voted john kerry. laden will come back in. the obama campaign learned in i say great. '08 you don't do that to the g-r-e-a-t, explanation point. american hero like mccain. you don't try to take away his then we can kill them all. service and stay away from that, get them out in the open and blow the hell out of every one thank god. >> they certainly -- go with of them. have them under sir vans from the air and destroy them out. dirt balls when dealing with the with no government in our way. bush crowd and karl rove and had the taliban is not going to stop to get back in bed with them in us. we don't have to get permission 2008. here's the ad they ran against you as an incumbent and war from musharraf or zardari. veteran and hero who certainly paid a lot of price for street country. we got them. here it is. i don't understand what's so >> as america faces terrorists dangerous about al qaeda being and extremists dictators, max in afghanistan rather than hiding away in the hills of cleland runs television ads pakistan. >> the thoughts they established claiming he has the courage to a foot hold there before and lead. he says he supports president would get another one. i think that's a faulty bush at every opportunity.
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but that is not the truth. conclusion. i think we -- we actually are the ones who originally put al >> there you have it. will he me ask you about the -- qaeda -- those foreign fighters how it all fits together. together with the afghan you talked about the experience mujahadin when we funded them to of the wars, vietnam. do they all look like view nam fight. let's remember that history lesson. now? what's the difference? i don't like the taliban. look, the way they treat women >> well, i tell you, if you build up afghanistan, if you put is a nightmare. in more troops, with the however, there are lots of countries that treat women sanctuary right across the -- right across the border, across poorly. what they're doing now is trying to build a nation and what we're the mountain range, you know, doing is building a nation that hates us and trying to get us and you pull in more troops and out. i think we have no -- there's no focus on counter zs insurgency certainty that the taliban would and nation building, that's let al qaeda pick up its vietnam. how did that work out for us? suitcases and move back in. i think that's a really kind of a faulty premise. zippo. you go -- don't go that way. >> i just wonder, i raised this you have a -- focus on theal with a congressman the other xwators in the swamp and not day, he thought i was talking about some other language. what moral right do we have to go into some other country and draining the skw ing ththe swam. kill the rebel faction? who are we to defend a that's al qaeda central and that's protecting the nuclear government who want to corrupt election and their people weapons program of pakistan and fighting it and we say, kill going after the taliban leaders anybody who fights a corrupt which are not in afghanistan. government. what moral right do we have to they are in southern pakistan. kill most people?
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so that's what you have to focus some day we think they might let somebody come in that country on. >> you know, everything you said who might come after us again? is right. i'm wondering about the morality thank you very much. of this, michael. max cleland. the book is called "heart of a what's wrong with the moral question? do we have the right to keep patriot." we are showing it again. killing muslims, been killing great book. you ought to buy it. them for eight straight years on it is about america. international television. turn on tv anywhere in the world there it is. up next, steve colbert's very now, see american killing muslims. funny take on very serious that's what we do on world business. television every night for eight straight years. i think it might make us enemies in that billion-person world. (announcer) the world is changing. if i were a muslim, i would say and how we use energy today, those americans keep killing us. cannot be how we'll use it tomorrow. >> the moral foundation has to be a causal connection. there is no one solution. you need to have a causal connection between those it's not simply more oil, more renewables, responsible for the events of or being more efficient. september 11th in order to it's all of it. continue to kill them or have our way of life depends on developing knowledge that some impending attack will take place unless all forms of energy. you take care of them first. that's the answer to the and to use less of it. question. let me say if when the president it's time to put our differences aside. stands up in three or so weeks and says here's the plan, if he will you be part of the solution? chevron. human energy. doesn't reference bin laden, it
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won't pass my list mouse test. >> don't throw a 50-foot rope to a guy drowning 100 feet from the shore. if you believe it will work, do it, if you don't believe it, don't do it. we'll be right back with joan and michael. ♪ singer: was getting depressed 'cause of all of the stress ♪ and then there's the twin-turbocharging, ♪ i was feeling at home 365-horsepower-generating, ♪ had a poor credit score ♪ and the number would haunt me wherever i'd go ♪ ecoboost™ engine in the all-new taurus sho from ford. ♪ thought i'd move to a place where my credit could stink ♪ ♪ and nobody would care that has the thirst of a v6 ♪ i just wish that somebody had told me ♪ with the thrust of a v8. ♪ that place was a renaissance fair! ♪ ♪ free credit report dot com! tell your friends, ♪ ♪ tell your dad,tell your mom! ♪ never mind, they've been singing our songs ♪ ♪ since we first showed up with our pirate hats on! ♪ we speak car. ♪ if you're not into fake sword fights ♪ we speak innovation. ♪ pointy slippers and green wool tights ♪ introducing the all-new taurus sho from ford. ♪ take a tip from a knight who knows ♪ ♪ free credit report dot com, let's go! ♪ drive one. legal vo: offer applies with enrollment in triple advantage
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we're back with joan and michael. a new cbo poll, announcement came out that told us that the senate bill does pass -- it lowers the deficit over ten
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years. are things starting to go the president's way? bob dole endorsed health care. arnold schwarzenegger endorsed it. they may pick up a couple senators in maine. are things starting to turn toward the president? i disagree with charlie cook. i think the poll that shows the president's disapproval down ten points is good news for him. >> good news for him. things are turning around on the health care front. the cbo report is big news, good news for the democrats. so many of the congressional republicans have pointed to other cbo estimates of other bills that do pump up the deficit. this cuts the deficit by $81 billion. let me add, interestingly, olympia snowe is an interesting figure here. she wants the baucus bill to cover more people. leaves 25 million uninsured and to be more generous. we'll see. there's still a fight. >> michael, we'll have you on again. thank you, joan. michael smerconish as always. join us again tomorrow night at 5:00 and 7:00 and for more
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"hardball." right now time for "the ed show" with ed schultz. good evening, americans, welcome to "the ed show." see these three guys right here? that's harry reid, max baucus and chris dodd. get to know them. they are the biggest players in the country right now after today's developments when it comes to health care reform in this country. now, that, of course, is, unless, the president decides to start drawing lines in the sand, which i'm not counting on. the congressional budget office score is $829 billion over the next 10 years that. that's the number that came in this afternoon on the cost of the senate finance committee bill. that's not the number that i'm really all concerned about. the number i'm concerned about is two. harry reid will sit max baucus and chris dodd at the conference table to finalize health care reform. that's who's going to represent the dems from the senate. here's max on his bill from the senate floor. >> our balanced a
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